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The following is a thread, trolls, typos and all, from The Soapbox
which discusses the environment and some of it's many problems.

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PAGE 3


From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   81 of 159 (In response to wallypog) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:10:49 -0800 
 
 
Excellent post Wallypog! When I was a kid I was sick all the time. Added to that I have a Mother
who is an alarmist, so I was always being carted off to the doctor's and being put on
anti-biotics (granted there were times when I should have been, but not nearly as often) and it
makes me sick to think what it's done to my body's immune system. My grade 9 geography teacher
was the first one to teach me about anti-biotic over usage, especially in the farming sector.
That is one of the reasons I don't eat meat anymore (besides spiritual reasons.) 

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   82 of 159 (In response to mfdc) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:19:35 -0800 
 
 
I believe scientists are able to determine these types of things using various methods, such as
testing ice samples and other methods which I'm not privy to at this time. But, the very fact
that there IS water there is cause enough for worry. We may not have been around 50 million
years ago, but the Inuit have never experienced this - they didn't even know what thunder and
lightning was until very recently. That has to show you something.

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From: jrip@ix.netcom.com(201)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   83 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 06:58:26 -0800 
 
 
terryl@coshocton.com wrote:

-WE are like a gnat on an elephants tail. "Save the world" The world has
-already survived floods, fires, universal explosions etc. It has already outlasted us by
-millions of years. What are you going to save?
-When we as humans are all gone some other species will inhabit the world or the universe which
-will be hundreds of thousands of years from now.
-Global warming is a bull crap story started by most likely the E P A
-{which stands for End of Productive America} and is communist backed.


You are right in that respect, our planet will suvive our abuse. But we will not survive with it,
neither will many other species. And as a whole we silly humans do want to go on. But thats not
the only issue here. For a long time before our extinction life on this planet could be very
uncomfortable. We already have quite an increase in respertory illnesses. Cancer is on the rise.
Viruses are becoming more and more resistant to antibiotics, crops are getting smaller and less
nutrition is found in foods. As people who eat nonstop we are now poorly nurished. And that does
not even touch the subject of the natural beauty we destroy at an alarming rate. Personaly I
would like to see my grandkids and the generations after that be able to walk in a forest and to
swim in an unpolluted lake. We are cutting down the rainforests as fast as we can. So what you
say. The rain forests are the bio- filters that clean our atmosphere. Where do you think all
that pollution goes that we spew into the air each day? It does not just magically dissapear. As
the rain forests go away the filtering ability of the plannet is reduced, and the pollution in
the atmosphere increases. Thus the increase in resperatory illnesses. If you are one of the
lucky ones not yet affected bravo for you. The problem with so many people today is they want to
listen to the music, but are not willing to pay the band, or even admit that the band should be
paid. When we refuse to pay a small price today we put a growing debt on our kids and grandkids
and the generations after them that they will not be able to pay. You need to tell your kids
now, that they will have to pay later, for your greediness.

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From: jrip@ix.netcom.com(201)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   84 of 159 (In response to wallypog) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:22:44 -0800 
 
 
I am not going to take the time to reply to everything in your message, but a few things I must
reply to.

First you are talking about the northern lights being produced by the hole in the ozone layer.
The hole is over the south pole. The northern lights by their own name are over the north pole.
Exactly how is the starlight coming thru the hole at the south pole directed around the earth to
show at the north pole?


Second the 100 mpg carburator. A gallon of gasoline only has so much energy available in it. That
energy is released by burning and used to produce work. Some energy is lost as heat and the rest
is used to produce movement of the pistons. The only thing the carburator does is mixes the gas
with air so it is more easily combustable. There are deffinitly ways to increase auto
efficiency, and that is what you are talking about. Lighter materials to make them with. Smaller
engines that require less fuel. The use of ceramics in the engines. Alternate fuels such as
natural gas, electric, and solar.


You are on the right track, so please don't take this in the wrong light.

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From: a3whaler(75)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   85 of 159 (In response to opals4u) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:32:43 -0800 
 
 
opals4u wrote:
-There has always been a hole in the ozone layer even before rockets were developed, it is just
-getting larger. 
-Whose rockets caused it to begin with? (ALIENS?) 

Meteors 

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From: justinal(106)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   86 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:36:31 -0800 
 
 
assenav wrote:

-Alas Dear Wolfie, it is you who is woefully ignorant. Open your eyes
-and see what is becoming of this world. We are overpopulated, and taxing this planet to its very
-limits. It is by no coincidence that once thought cured diseases are returning with vengeance.
-Disease and
-pestilence are the earth's way of combatting this scourge known as humanity. If only these
-diseases could selectively attack the obtuse of mind.


The Earth has become hotter and colder, without man being around. To suggest that this same cycle
is now because of man is insane. They had "global warming" when the Ice Age ended. You going to
blame that one on man too?

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   87 of 159 (In response to justinal) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:29:20 -0800 
 
 
Please read through the rest of this thread carefully. It has been posted several times by myself
and a few others that the hot and cold cycles we are experiencing now are far more extreme than
they could, would or should be without man and all of his tampering. 

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From: maddog1racing@hotmail.com(79)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   88 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:54:18 -0800 
 
 
The fact is that the last time there was a significant swing to the hot side of the normal
hot/cold cycles that the earth regualrly goes through, there was no one at the south pole to see
if there were clouds or standing water. We have no way of knowing exactly how hot the average
temperature got. And, by the way, the ultimate conclusion of these massive hot/cold swings is an
ice age. Since we have just about peaked out on the hot side of the swing, we will now begin a
slow swing to the colder side and eventually, in another 15,000 or so years, another ice age.
Wake me when it's over.

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   89 of 159 (In response to justinal) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:56:57 -0800 
 
 
justinal wrote:

-To suggest that this same cycle is now because of man is insane. 

Furthermore, what IS "insane" is to think that clearcutting away huge sections of the Brazilian
Rainforest (to name just one of the things effecting the climate) would not have an incredible
adverse effect on the climate.


To those who think we are "commies" and more for giving a rat's a$$ about this planet, just 
exactly what skin off your backside IS it that makes you so unwilling to do anything?
Laziness - "Oh, but buying that product that is more eco-friendly costs a little more, and I
can't pick it up at my 7-11, so I'll stick with this corrosive chemical that I've always used.
I'm just one person - it won't
matter."
Selfishness - "Well, I'M not gonna be around when things really get bad. THEY can figure things
out then."
Near-sightedness - "But, the people making a living off of the status quo (Big Oil, Logging,etc.)
are gonna suffer. Why should they be expected to change, adapt and grow into new ventures? Why
should we make it any easier for new industries like Hemp (actually an old industry illegalized
through lobbying by Big Business) Solar Power and more."
Or just plain old Ignorance? "Duh, everything looks okay in my backyard."
CHANGE IS GOOD.

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From: justinal(106)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   90 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:13:53 -0800 
  

Really? Ice covering much of the planet would qualify as "extreme"? 

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From: opals4u(229)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   91 of 159 (In response to a3whaler) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:19:25 -0800 
 
 
( There has always been a hole in the ozone layer even before rockets were developed, it is just
getting larger.
Whose rockets caused it to begin with? (ALIENS?)

(Meteors ) 

I think you have got it backwards from the original post! The statement was that rockets were
taking the ozone away from the earth.
Meteors would be bringing it here if that was the case! If holes could be punched in the ozone 
layer to begin with.

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From: opals4u(229)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   92 of 159 (In response to maddog1racing) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:25:00 -0800 
 
 
Don't you ever read or watch the science channel? There are drilling expeditions for core samples
that are tested giving information as to this data.

Science is a wonderful thing when used correctly (in the best interest of man).
(Science=Knowledge)

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From: terryl@coshocton.com(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   93 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:36:28 -0800 
 
 
I'm dilusional? Let me tell you a little EPA story. 
I once owned a pallet shop, we made pallets and skids out of wood. we stored our lumber and 
pallet inventory outside.The epa came in and said we needed apermit to store these products
outside because of acid rain running off our lumber was making a chemical reaction and polutting
the nearby streams. The permit was $1500 yearly to the EPA. Once we bought the permit apparently 
the acid rain had no effect on anything. So let it rain. We were a small business that employed 6 
people. we could not afford the permit so we had to close.
Tis is only one of many cases where the EPA has eliminated a small business.
Read the communist ten commandments------- One is to eliminate all small business.
NUFF SAID.

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From: cowboys70s(321)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   94 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:06:12 -0800 
 
 
what is interesting about a complex scientific topic like Global Warming is that common real
people actually think they know more about an issue and can form an informed opinion and attack
1000s of scientists who have spent their lives researching and still trying to understand such a 
problem rather then simply ignore it or say there is no problem...reading one book or listening
to one person is not forming an informed opinion...like going to the Dr and dismissing his
warnings about changing your lifestyle before you have a heart attack..now everyone has a right
to an opinion and become educated but Global Warming like many scientific issues is complex and
beyond most of us understanding...with a PnD in Environmental Sciences I am still debating true
impact and range of results of human induced warming on this plant and present complexity of
issues to the undergraduate students I teach...clearly we are having impacts on how our planet
functions but at what degree and rate (when combined with natural variations in climate) is
still uncertain and need for understanding. 
 

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From: a3whaler(75)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   95 of 159 (In response to opals4u) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:33:25 -0800 
 
 
Meteors created the original hole in the ozone by carrying ozone away from the ozone layer down
to the Earth's surface. Once on Earth, ozone reacts chemically with unsaturated organic
compounds to create ozonides - preventing the ozone from floating back up to the ozone layer.

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From: mishkat(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   96 of 159 (In response to cowboys70s) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:45:43 -0800 
 
 
Hey, cowboys70. Glad to meet another "environmental scientist weirdo type" (Not a jab at you -
I'm quoting from one of the above posters). I've been both dismayed at how little some of the
people who have responded to this thread know about scientific issues, and heartened at how some
other people who have responded have actually taken the time to educate themselves.


I think it's really good to teach undergraduates "don't know yet, but here are the various
opinions" - it seems to help many of them think for themselves. I agree that no one, as yet,
really knows what is going to happen in the global warming scenario, but I feel it is important
to teach all the possible alternatives at this time. 

I'd be interested to hear your opinions on global warming - if you care to give them - and I will
understand that they are not conclusive. 

Take care - mishkat

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   97 of 159 (In response to justinal) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:34:48 -0800 
 
 
justinal wrote:

-assenav wrote:

--....the hot and cold
--cycles we are experiencing now are far more extreme than they could, would or should be without
--man and all of his tampering. 

-Really? Ice covering much of the planet would qualify as "extreme"? 

Firstly, I assume you meant "wouldn't". Secondly, to clarify my statement.... "...the hot and
cold cycles we are experiencing NOW are far more extreme than they could, would or should be
NOW. 

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   98 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 17:57:50 -0800 
 
 
The EPA is a bureaucracy and as such has its flaws and even corruptions inherent to ANY large
governing body. This does not make it Communist in nature as you would have us believe. In
addition, their scope and powers can only extend so far. I am guessing that the yearly fees (to
cover clean up costs) in lieu of an outright ban on the outdoor storage of your product was due
to the lack of power to do so. Just because The EPA is not perfect does not mean that
environmental issues should be ignored. That would be like saying "I've had a few bad
experiences with snipers outbidding me, so now I'm writing the whole lot of them off." Oh, wait
a minute, you do subscribe to that. Ah, but I saw your post on that thread dealing with poor
ms.sher's stalker. It's in print, you've gone on record to say there are people more evil than
snipers!! Anyway, I digress. No more talk of snipers on this thread. 

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From: terryl@coshocton.com(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   99 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:20:14 -0800 
 
 

"THE EPA"S POWERS CAN ONLY GO SO FAR" Who do they answer to? NO ONE.
THEY can do whatever to whomever they want and use our money to fight us with.
What about all the mom and pop gas stations they recently closed with the big B.s story that all
underground tanks were leaking and had to be replaced at thousands of dollars of costs to all
the little mom and pop places. Most of them are out of business because of this. The EPA is
not communist as I would suggest? Read the communist ten commandments. WE don't need any more
bleeding hearts in this country trying to save the world. The communist party thrives on that
kind of crap.
Do you hear an echo with your head up your a$$?

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From: eladspal(68)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   100 of 159 (In response to wolfsangel) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:05:04 -0800 
 
 
Say "Hi" to Rush Limbaugh for me next time you see him, okay? It's only 80 here in California on
December 18th -- Happy Holidays! 

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   101 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:17:47 -0800 
 
 
And how exactly do YOU know that those tanks weren't leaking? Besides, please stay on topic. 
This thread is about Global Warming, not the EPA. 

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From: assenav(3)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   102 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 19:31:15 -0800 
 
 
terryl@coshocton.com wrote:

-Read the communist ten commandments------- One is to eliminate all small business.


Not that I disagree entirely with Capitalism, but I think Capitalism is doing a pretty fine job
of that all on it's own. Let's see, um....Microsoft; WalMart; Nike; GM, Chrysler & Ford (see the
movie 'Tucker' to confirm that one); McDonald's; Coca-Cola..... The list is endless of U.S. mega
corporations gobbling up or eliminating smaller companies that they see as potential threats.
One need only to drive along any major highway; almost gone are those "Mom & Pop" diners and
truck stops. They've all been replaced with Capitalist, American fast food chains. Walmart has
replaced most of those "Mom & Pop" department stores. So don't talk to me about Communism
destroying the underdogs. One need look no further than The American Dream. 


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From: jrip@ix.netcom.com(201)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   103 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:28:15 -0800 
 
 
Al Gore was an enviromentelist long before he was vice president and is not going to stop
promoting his vision now, because he did not become President. He's got lots of time now to
really get going and push for harder controls and just think of all the conections he has after
8 years in the Whitehouse. You will hear from Al Gore again. 

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From: a3whaler(75)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   104 of 159 (In response to eladspal) 
Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:54:02 -0800 
 
 
80! What would you charge to ship me some of that? Winter started early here in Maine - we got
our first snowfall in October! 

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From: green-pepper(160)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   105 of 159 (In response to a3whaler) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 03:50:29 -0800 
 
 
Okay - I didn't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. Whther
global warming is actually real or not is not an issue right now. The weather we are
experiencing this year is because of sunspots. 


Now before you think I'm crazy - I did a thesis on this - it is very true and not at all a
crackpot idea. 


Every 11 years the sun undergoes a period of activity called the solar maximum, followed by a
period of quiet called the solar minimum. During the solar maximum there are many sunspots,
solar flares, and coronal mass ejections, all of which can effect communication and weather here 
on earth. www.sunspotcycle.com 


If you were to chart sunspots on a graph, you can easily see the 11 year cycle. 1901, 1912, 1923,
1934, 1945, 1956, 1967, 1978 and 1989. Extreme summers and very snowy winters were experienced
at these times as well. And yes, year 2000 is a solar maximum. THAT is why the weather this year 
is screwy.


So blame the sun if you're buried in snow. It really is true!



Holly 

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From: seulb(95)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   106 of 159 (In response to mishkat) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:19:22 -0800 
 
 

Siberia and Alaska were once connected to each other by a land mass. This was during the ice age.
As the planet warmed the ice slowly receded. That land mass today is under 200 feet of water.
The rise in the ocean was created by the melting ice caused by GLOBAL WARMING. This is proof
positive that global warming does exist. HELLO!! 

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From: traderfour(18)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   107 of 159 (In response to seulb) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:35:21 -0800 
 
 

And it happened long before man had the internal combustion engine, freon or any of the other
things Al and his junk scientists claim to be the cause of Global Warming. GOODBYE!!

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From: mishkat(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   108 of 159 (In response to seulb) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:37:53 -0800 
 
 
Not sure why you addressed this to me, since I agree with you. However, you are talking about
GRADUAL changes in Earth's climate (long-term heating and cooling cycles). No one is going to
argue with you about this - it's a well-established fact that these cycles exist - otherwise we
wouldn't have had the Ice Age, right? But the current "global warming" theory says that
ACCELERATED climatic change (heating) is occuring now because of the influence of human
activities on the earth's atmosphere.

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From: terryl@coshocton.com(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   109 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:49:07 -0800 
 
 
I agree with you that capitalism has played a big role. But, so has the EPA.
This thread is not about the EPA? Where does all the bleeding hearts hang out in the good old USA
that are all bent on saving the world? 

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From: seulb(95)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   110 of 159 (In response to traderfour) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 06:55:36 -0800 
 
 

I believe the cause of global warming could be a combination of both natural and human but I'm
only trying to point out that it is real and not a fabricated issue. I'm concerned not about how
this will affect me now but how this will affect future generations. I know there are people out
there who only care about today and worry about global warming when the waters are lapping at my
doorstep and starts costing me money. Those type pesonalities will welcome George W. Damn the
enviorment and get what we can while we're still here!!!! 

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From: cowboys70s(321)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   111 of 159 (In response to seulb) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:09:46 -0800 
 
 
well since someone asked earlier in this board about my opinion and how I teach global warming to
students.. I focus on the debate about increased CO2 levels in our atmosphere - both natural and
human sources - and basic chemical reactions in the atmosphere leading to trapped heat.. key
issue for me is that humans are changing the planet - both on the earth's surface via
deforestation and introducing new materials and also increased amounts of other elements into
the atmosphere..we are changing our planet..now the current debate centers around how much
change and how fast and these are still areas of uncertainty as are the possible solutions to
C02 loading....can we afford to simply ignore these changes or are they worth study (by the way
the amount of money spent on these types of research are a fraction of other government funding
such as on the military ...we can afford to try and understand the planet we live on)..finally
one needs to think of global warming as long term trends over decades and over the entire
surface of the earth not single season or for example current cold winter in much of US
currently...fact remains that over the last 20 years our climate is getting warmer. yes for
reasons that are not completely understood hence the need for research...in fact some evidence
suggests the climate has been warming for more than 100 years due to various natural changes in
our atmosphere..the impacts of such changes on our society, food production etc... warrent
scientific study which will continue even under 4 years of Bush because the problem is a long
term one which the international community and 1000s of experts have identified as a problem
(and Rush is not an expert on global warming or many other complex issues he declares to know
everything about - like many other people trying to form opinions they are simply wrong and
often promoting their own protected agenda)

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From: seulb(95)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   112 of 159 (In response to mishkat) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 07:57:26 -0800 
 
 
I'm new as far as using the discussion boards and was really directing that to some of the more
"stranger" remarks I've seen on this thread although I thought you were refering to Al Gore and
his scientists and while I think he leaves something to be desired when it comes to his
prsonality I thought he was the best choice as far as the enviroment is concerned. Sorry if I
offended, Max. 

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From: mishkat(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   113 of 159 (In response to seulb) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:17:52 -0800 
 
 

Hi Max - You didn't offend me - just thought you might have mis-interpreted something that I
said. If you read some of the other posts I made in the thread, you'll see that I agree with
you.


Honestly, I don't think Gore made global warming into a political issue - I didn't realize that
it was so politicized until I started reading some of the other messages on this thread about
global warming being a communist plot and so forth - snicker! (Reminds me of that bumper sticker
"Stop Continental Drift!")


I agree that Al Gore comes across very stiffly in public (although he apparently is far more
relaxed in private), but I don't think that running for public office should be a personality
contest. I voted for him partly because of his knowledge of environmental issues. 

Take care, mishkat

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From: mishkat(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   114 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:24:55 -0800 
 
 
terryl@coshocton.com wrote:

-I agree with you that capitalism has played a big role. But, so has the
-EPA. This thread is not about the EPA? Where does all the bleeding hearts
-hang out in the good old USA that are all bent on saving the world? 


Terry, have you ever dealt with the EPA? They can be VERY conservative about environmental issues
- and I don't think your characterization of them as "bleeding hearts" is correct at all. The
EPA was started during Nixon's administration, and is not what I would call a "liberal"
government agency. Basically, the EPA makes and enforces rules, which is why their regulations
can seem arbitrary at time. All their new rulings are put up for an extended public comment
period, and are reviewed before promalgation by scientific experts AND concerned businesses in
any particular field. (I know this from experience.) 

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From: terryl@coshocton.com(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   115 of 159 (In response to mishkat) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:32:01 -0800 
 
 
Yes I have in fact dealt with the End of Productive America communists. Read my earlier post. I
also spent ten years as a village councilman. BTW, that village had a population of 350, small
town and small government. You would not beleive the EPA communists mandates they come up with.
Another communist ten commandment is to eliminate all small government. Boy do they ever work on
that one.

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From: jrip@ix.netcom.com(201)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   116 of 159 (In response to terryl) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:56:31 -0800 
 
 
I believe that people who argue about our impact on this planet are afraid what they have to give
up if enviromental protection ever becomes a law that affects every citizen. And so it schould.
Even if you do not believe in global warming you can see the negative impact we have everyday
and everywhere. Trash being dunped along the edge of the highway, dumpside for our waste that
are bigger then some subdivisions, smog hanging over large cities, dumpsides for old tires that
stay around for ages, broken down junkers, bathtubs, refrigerators, and old stove sitting on
people property for years, lakes decorrated with old tires and rusting shopping carts. We act
like our planet is nothing but a big wastesite for our own use. Personly I would rather live in
a cleaner, more beautiful world and will allways suport high fines for those who think the have
the right to make a mess of our beautiful planet. Arguing about the impact we have on our Earth
is just pure denial or selective blindness.

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From: terryl@coshocton.com(53)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   117 of 159 (In response to jrip) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 08:59:54 -0800 
 
 
You are simply talking about littering, which I beleive people who litter is a whole different
story. Littering is wrong. We used to have city dumps and private owned landfills. Since the EPA
got involved where do you take tires, refrigerators and such and who can afford now to get rid
of them? Again we can thank the Government for this mess.

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From: justinal(106)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   118 of 159 (In response to cowboys70s) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:36:13 -0800 
 
 
cowboys70s wrote:

-what is interesting about a complex scientific topic like Global Warming is that common real
-people actually think they know more about
-an issue and can form an informed opinion and attack 1000s of scientists who have spent their
-lives researching and still trying to
-understand such a problem rather then simply ignore it or say there is
-no problem...



Which scientists do you believe? The ones for GW or the ones against? 

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From: justinal(106)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   119 of 159 (In response to assenav) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:38:20 -0800 
 
 
assenav wrote:

-Firstly, I assume you meant "wouldn't". 


Correct. 


-Secondly, to clarify my
-statement.... "...the hot and cold cycles we are experiencing NOW are
-far more extreme than they could, would or should be NOW. 


How do you now? We can barely predict tomorrow's weather yet some want to predict 10 or 20 years
ahead.

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From: justinal(106)   (view author's auctions)  
Topic: Re: Global WARMING 
Message:   120 of 159 (In response to seulb) 
Sent: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 09:41:23 -0800 
 
 
seulb wrote:

-Siberia and Alaska were once connected to each other by a land mass. This was during the ice
-age. As the planet warmed the ice slowly
-receded. That land mass today is under 200 feet of water. The rise in
-the ocean was created by the melting ice caused by GLOBAL WARMING. This
-is proof positive that global warming does exist. HELLO!! 

Natural "global warming", yes. We all agree that the Earth undergoes climate changes. We disagree
on what impact man has. 

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